[00:00:00] Matt Ragland: HeyCreators. I want to tell you about the sponsor of today’s show and it is Riverside FM. Now I love using Riverside for the HeyCreator podcast, but we use it at HeyCreator for many other things, including client interviews and community calls. At times it is. It is the best tool that I have found for recording podcast episodes, either by myself here with Tim or with our guests.
[00:00:27] There are several reasons that we chose Riverside to be the tool of choice for the HeyCreator podcast, but let me give you a few of my favorites. The very first one is the ease of use and the quality of the audio. All I have to do is send a link to the guest and they can join. There’s no additional software for them to download or anything special for them to do.
[00:00:47] It is so easy. The other big thing that I love about Riverside is how it records all of the audio and video locally and individually per guest. What that means is if someone drops a connection, it doesn’t affect anyone else’s feed. It also means that if someone has some background noise going on or something that could affect other people on other recording platforms.
[00:01:10] Riverside isolates all of those tracks, which makes it really easy to clean up in post production. Another great feature that Riverside has come out with recently is their AI clip generator. This makes it so much faster and easier to get those short form vertical videos from the best moments of the Haker series.
[00:01:26] I highly recommend using Riverside FM for your podcast. And to get a special rate, all you have to do is go to riverside. fm and use the coupon code. HeyCreator. That’s one word. HeyCreator for 15 percent off any Riverside.
[00:01:41] HeyCreators, in today’s episode, Tim and I gave our viewpoints on how you should start your creator journey. Some of our best advice, and we specifically talked about it in terms of like where you should start on your journey, depending on where you are in life. Tim talked about where you could start from if you were a new college grad or someone who’s a young professional like him.
[00:02:05] And then I talked about my experience and my perspective starting from a side hustle, starting when I was already working full time, starting when this is something that maybe Maybe I didn’t want to go into right away, but it’s something that I wanted to build to over a couple of years. What we found is a lot of the advice that you give to someone in a certain situation was still relevant for the other person’s target audience.
[00:02:25] So no matter where you are on your creator journey, you’ll find a way to apply from what you learned in today’s episode.
[00:02:40] Tim, you went and ruined flannel Thursday before we even got started.
[00:02:44] Tim Forkin: Yeah, I wish I had control over the thermostat in this room. I don’t have control over it. And if you want to know the temperature in here, uh, it reads that the temperature is P five. That doesn’t make sense. They don’t want us to know.
[00:02:59] You were going
[00:02:59] Matt Ragland: flannel and hoodie, and now you’re just down to a t shirt.
[00:03:03] Tim Forkin: I’m in Michigan, man. Like
[00:03:04] Matt Ragland: it’s, it’s
[00:03:05] Tim Forkin: 40 always feels like 30 or 20.
[00:03:08] Matt Ragland: Very nice. Well, yeah, it’s, it’s a chilly day here in Nashville for, for us, for us. Southern folk are like, you know, Nashville’s a little Midwest. Don’t, don’t tell anybody they grew up in Nashville, but, uh, that, but there’s a little, there’s a little Midwest energy in Nashville as well, but it’s a chilly day for us.
[00:03:25] It’s like four, it’s like 48. So we’re like, Ooh, yeah. If I was wearing this
[00:03:29] Tim Forkin: t shirt. Uh, outside right now, that’d be pretty, some, uh, some pretty bad advice. Uh, but today, today, I know we’re talking about good advice. We are talking
[00:03:37] Matt Ragland: about good advice. Thank you for getting me back on track.
[00:03:39] Tim Forkin: Segway masterclass right there.
[00:03:40] Matt Ragland: That’s right. Yeah. This is, this is what you do. Yeah. Today we are talking about advice for creators and we’re mainly going to focus this on new creators, but they’re. is going to be a couple of pieces of advice that I want to share from the more experienced creator side. Also, like I just got right before this podcast, I got off a call with our Hey, Creator community.
[00:04:02] Every Thursday at 2 p. m. Eastern, we have an office hours call and people come in and they ask questions about, um, Landing page design about conversion rates, about setting up Google analytics, about pricing. These are all things that like we’re talking about every single day, every single week. And so like there are a couple of based on that call, like these, I’m coming in kind of hot on, on some of these takes and thoughts that I have.
[00:04:27] Tim Forkin: Matt’s going to take the entry point of like the, uh, maybe older 30 plus creator who has a job over
[00:04:35] Matt Ragland: 30. Yes.
[00:04:40] Tim Forkin: The professional who is creating as a side hustle, and I’m going to take more of like the younger creator who’s maybe fresh out of college or still in high school even, and maybe creating full time isn’t a possibility for them, but they want to go down the creator path and they already know it. So I’ll take the entry point that’s more relevant to me and Matt, you take the one that’s more.
[00:04:58] Matt Ragland: Yeah, a lot of things that there’s obviously going to be a lot of overlap between between these things. And because The way that you might be creating content coming like fresh out of college or the way that you’re thinking about it I know the question like Tim you get hit up on this like all the time You’re telling me like people you haven’t talked to in quite a while.
[00:05:18] Like hey, Tim. Hey, how you doing? How you doing this stuff? Tell me more about it. So i’ll let you kick it off. Actually i’ve got I’ve got some ideas, uh, percolating, but like we even talked about, I, I got, uh, an email from, from, uh, a local college student is like, Hey, I do video work. I’m, you know, want to become more of a full time creator.
[00:05:39] I’m just graduating. He actually sent me, uh, his like resume. I haven’t seen a resume in years. And I was like, Oh no, not a resume, not a resume, sir. So like, we talked about this a little bit before. And I know you have some like. I guess I had friends and recent grads who have reached out to you as well. So like, what’s your, what’s your number one, like piece of advice to the new or soon to be grad from college that wants to do like content creation.
[00:06:07] Tim Forkin: The first thing, this is relevant mostly to younger people, but. Certainly in all aspects and maybe even actually nothing about it. Maybe even more so if you’re older, this is a mental game. First creating kind of as a mental game. Most importantly, if you’re starting to become a creator, like it’s not a common profession, right?
[00:06:24] Like your friends that you sit around with on weekends, watching football or go on hikes with or ride bikes with like whoever your friend group is and what they do. Most of them aren’t creators. Right. So when you come out and say like, Oh, I want to start making videos. You’re gonna get, like, roasted. They might make fun of you.
[00:06:40] Yeah, and
[00:06:40] Matt Ragland: even though it’s become way more, like, acceptable and, like, mainstream to do these, to do these things, I’m the only person in my friend group that does this as, like, as a career, or even as a side hustle. I don’t, there, there’s nobody, like, in my friend group, and now I’m older. But even though it’s become more common, it’s still not common.
[00:07:02] Tim Forkin: Yeah. So I’ll sit around with my friends on weekends, like, Oh, I, uh, do supply chain for an auto parts thing, or, Oh, I work in HR or, Oh, I’m still in med school. And like the idea of being a creator is just so foreign to them. It’s, I got a text from like an old friend. It’s like, Hey dude, nice podcast. Like when we launched this, those kinds of stuff, those kinds of things are going to pop up.
[00:07:24] And if you can’t handle. Like, the fact that other people are going to, like, quote unquote, like, make fun of you or roast you or joke about it or even, like, seriously just, like, condemn you. Oh, you want to be a creator? That’s the very first step and I said this before on the show, this was really hard for me to get past.
[00:07:41] Like if I were to go all the way back, I made gaming videos as a little kid, call it like middle school, early high school. If someone at school found out that would have been like DEF CON one. Like I, it would have been terrible. Like I was so, so angry about it. I feel like I’m listening to a diary
[00:07:55] Matt Ragland: of a wimpy kid book.
[00:07:56] Uh, literally, like it
[00:07:58] Tim Forkin: literally is like that. Someone found out. If someone found out it would be terrible, right? Um, in college, you know, I got more confident, got a girlfriend, like I had all the pieces in place and I was much more confident in myself. I was like, I want to make, Videos. I’m like, I don’t care what these people from my past, like whatever, think about
[00:08:18] Matt Ragland: it, a flip side of that, obviously keep your friends, like, you know, don’t just have like nothing but content creator friends, because like the flip side of that, once you’ve like gotten over the initial like roasting and that will, that will still come in some ways be like, you know, Hey dude, I like that stupid face that you made on your thumbnails.
[00:08:35] Like, Hey man, that stupid face clickable. Clickable face, not punchable, clickable face. Is that your friends who don’t do this will be such a good counterbalance. To like you not getting like too wrapped up in the content creator world that when you like hang out with your friends And they’re like in hr or sales or they’re doctors.
[00:08:58] They’re you know They’re dentists. They’re doing like all these things. There’s like yeah, man You know, there’s plenty plenty of good ways to make money and you know nat talked about that Also, I like in our interview with nat that really stood out to me. He’s like, hey You You know, there, if you’re in this just to make money, then there are lots of other ways that are way more chill to make money and your friends will be like a good counterbalance to your, you not getting too big of a head or getting too much into like content mode that you like forget what other people are like going through and how they’re living life.
[00:09:29] Tim Forkin: Yeah. And you mentioned it like Greg Isenberg, Jason Levin, both say this all the time. Like cringe is the new cool. Like if you’re doing this and it’s cringey, that’s, you know, that you’re on the track to do something like, well, there’s two very big short form creators from my hometown who make some of the cringiest content you will ever see.
[00:09:46] Like it’s you and I, both anyone listening would just be like, Oh, what are these, what are these people doing? But you know, it’s not cringey is that both of them are pulling in 40 K a month, at least from their content. So how much can you like shit on them? If they’re not going, if like, if they’re making that much money, you know, like obviously there’s some, there are certain things you don’t want to do for 40, 000 a month, even to the people in your life, but most of us, people listening, if you’re making that kind of money, nothing you’re doing is cringe, it’s, it’s cool.
[00:10:12] And I’m, I’m constantly looking for the point in which the dollar amount or the follower amount, like at what point does it go from cringe to cool in the minds of these like skeptical friends or not friends, you know?
[00:10:23] Matt Ragland: Yeah, I think it was. It’s been in a couple of books. I think it’s the one that I’m thinking of is I think it’s millionaire mindset.
[00:10:31] T Harv Ecker, I think is the name. Another book like this is, uh, you’re a badass at making money by Jen Sincero. And they both have like. A version of this same quote, which is i’d rather be really corny than really rich than really cool and really poor And like there’s like a version of that and what you’re saying is like hey Yeah, if you want to be kind of corny cringe I think that’s what you’re talking about like kind of corny cringe and like be raking it in then hey like get go for it
[00:10:58] Tim Forkin: Just in a vacuum if you’re making videos and not making money, that’s like cringe to people but if you’re making videos and are making money than that then it isn’t right or even writing online like Yeah Whatever.
[00:11:08] To wrap it all up, you have to get over the fact that you’re gonna get judged for this. People are gonna DM it on Instagram to people, or you’re gonna run into these initial barriers of like, oh crap, the people in my life are making fun of me for this. Or, uh, what are people gonna think? And if I know the main reason that this is number one is because there’s so many people in my life who cannot get over this.
[00:11:27] It’s like, oh, like that’s the thing is like if someone reaches out to me, I wanna start making content and then they don’t. Like that’s often the reason why is like they couldn’t even, they couldn’t put something out there to the point where they want people to see it, or if they do, and it doesn’t, their friends don’t like it, then that’s just over for them.
[00:11:40] Right. And I don’t want that for you. Yeah.
[00:11:42] Matt Ragland: Don’t want that either. You gotta, you gotta tough it out. You gotta take some of the hits. Uh, that’s one of the tests. That’s one of the tests that just like all of us kind of go through is, can I get over the people in my life who aren’t going to be a fan of this for me?
[00:11:56] And if you want it enough and you’re okay with it enough, then like, just keep going. Just keep going, y’all. All right, uh, my number one thing, and again, like, I’m coming to this from the context, from the perspective of someone who’s, you know, you’ve been at a, you’ve been at a job or maybe multiple jobs for several years.
[00:12:13] Maybe you’re like, you know, mid thirties, you want to make some, you want to make some extra money or you want to do a business or you just, you want to share something more creative, um, like in the hours that you’re not working. The number one. like piece of advice that I can give you is that you can only focus on one thing at a time.
[00:12:32] So when you’re doing this, like just focus on like one topic, one platform, one type of content, and like, don’t try and stretch yourself too thin early on. So like, for example, one of the things that the way that I would think about this and the way that I started with it was I’m going to make videos on YouTube, telling my story for people who are like working remotely at a tech company and trying to grow their career.
[00:13:01] That’s, that’s what I was making videos for and I just did it on YouTube and that’s all I focused on basically for 18 months. My topic kind of shifted along, along the like as that year went on, that’s when I started talking about productivity and then bullet journaling. But I, I saw the most success by far when I was just focusing on put one YouTube video out every week for this particular like type of viewer.
[00:13:28] I did have a newsletter, which we can talk about. So I guess that’s a little, I was collecting here’s, here’s an important thing. I was collecting email subscribers. I wasn’t actively writing my newsletter yet. Um, now I know like other ways to do a little bit of both of those things, but early on, like don’t spread yourself too thin.
[00:13:46] Don’t try and be everywhere. which, you know, we’ll talk about like bad advice later, but just focus on one thing and one outcome for yourself, for that ideal person and do that for, At least six months, I would say even more like a year.
[00:14:03] Tim Forkin: Yeah, that resonates. As you were talking, I’m thinking about like where I’m at in my creator journey right now.
[00:14:09] On the day we’re recording this, tomorrow, my first, like, reset into YouTube will come out, right? And my plan is YouTube video, In newsletter, both with entirely the same kind of like script and text. Um, and that’s going to be like my one thing, right? It’s the same content, just in two different places. So it’s actually funny that you said that because I like, I’m at the point where I need to live that, you know, this YouTube thing is a side project away from all this work.
[00:14:36] We do it. Hey, creator away from our client work. I am about to be the test case for do this thing on one platform. Cause it really is all I have time for. And I know that I want to do YouTube and I want to have a newsletter. So that’s the same content, both places. I would agree. I think there’s a, uh, like a glamorization of the people who are on every platform.
[00:14:56] And like, when you come into this creator world and you see like Gary V who’s posting eight times a day on every platform, you think like, Oh, I want to do that. I, I, I can do that. I, you know, Have all these good ideas and I have the time to do this. And you really don’t, especially if you’re hard at a full time job.
[00:15:09] Matt Ragland: Yeah. I mean, we love repurposing. We have a whole agency that’s based on repurposing and remixing content. But like the big like point that I would make here is that even if you are using the same exact ideas across multiple platforms, there’s still a, like very literal attention cost to that. That is very difficult to overcome.
[00:15:33] And it just adds, adds extra mental heft to your plate. Number one piece of advice is like, just have one clear focus when you’re doing this, one clear, one clear viewer, reader, listener, one place that you’re posting one type of content that you’re doing that and focus on that for, for at least a year, because again, like we’re, I’m coming at this from the context of a side hustle that you.
[00:15:58] If you’re listening and you have a team where you can just say like here’s my podcast go for it then great But that’s that’s not where I’m giving this advice from
[00:16:12] as a creator One of the most important things I’ve learned is that it’s impossible to be on this journey alone I needed other creators in my circle for accountability for support to learn from and to grow with and this is why we started the HeyCreator community It’s a place to connect with like minded creators to follow a proven roadmap of success and get the support you need to build your creator business For more information, just go to hey, creator.
[00:16:35] com slash community.
[00:16:41] Tim Forkin: My next one more tailored towards younger creators, because if you’re a professional, you’ve had jobs. Maybe you want to create content or it’s semi related to the topics and the industries that you work in. Um, but if you’re a younger creator, there’s two parts of this, but under the same umbrella of like, don’t be someone you aren’t.
[00:17:00] And more specifically, I mean, let’s start with the first one. Like don’t be an expert. When you aren’t, this was a major mistake for me. When you’re young, you think, you know, everything like, I’ll say that as a young person, like there’s been many things that I, yeah, you think myself here. I thought I knew how to create these outcomes for clients or.
[00:17:22] Myself like make videos that would go viral my first youtube video. I made when I rejoined in college went viral So I thought I had all the answers it turns out I was just paralyzed and I didn’t have any of the answers So if you’re a writer like young Writers who think they’re experts use a bunch of big words in their writing to sound smart you try to teach things that you haven’t lived through and My friend Jay Yang, who’s younger than me, I’m pretty sure he’s 18.
[00:17:46] Uh, I saw him like he clearly changed his content and blew up and he used a phrase called earned insights. That’s, that’s what he called it. Or I don’t know if he got that from somewhere, but as an 18 year old for him, like you only know like what you’re doing, right. And you can share what you’re doing.
[00:18:01] And everything changed in my style when I can only talk about the things that I have actually done, the projects I’ve actually worked on, the clients that I’ve actually had as a younger creator. Don’t be an expert because like you don’t like if you’re speaking from the authority you don’t have Everyone can tell and your content won’t do well, and you just it doesn’t work so Matt I’ll leave you there, but there’s a there’s a second part to it, too
[00:18:25] Matt Ragland: Yeah, the other the other part of this and I’m glad you brought it up is that you know when you are And they’re like, good advice.
[00:18:32] I’ll just kind of, I’ll just kind of tag on here. I wasn’t thinking about this, but since you said like, when you’re younger, you haven’t built up that earned insight that like expertise just yet, you don’t have, like, unless you were a college athlete or something, you want to talk about something in terms of like, you know, fitness then.
[00:18:48] Okay. Um, but with. When you are a professional and you’ve been working at a particular job for a number of years, usually a really good place to start sharing content is about the thing, you know, assuming like a contractor and non compete doesn’t prevent that. Sharing content about the thing that you’re have already spent a number of years working on.
[00:19:12] This is why like the mid, I started, I’ve done a lot of things in, in life, uh, in my career, but the one that I have like built the most like expertise on is started with my work at ConvertKit and then at Podia. So I worked at startups with creators on email marketing, on course launches, on podcast, like on all of these things.
[00:19:37] It wasn’t just that I was doing as a side hustle. I was the side hustle started. Because I was already doing some of these things, I was saying, like, Hey, here’s a great way to get email subscribers. Here’s how you can write a newsletter. Here’s how you like set up automations. These were things that I had already like built an expertise on.
[00:19:53] So if you’re like, if you’re an accountant, if you like are good with Google Sheets, if you are like, what are the things that you already have a level of understanding expertise in and then start to talk about that online as the first, like your first foray into content. Justin Welsh likes to say like you probably have a hundred thousand dollars of ideas sitting in your brain that You think is totally normal and not like not special at all But it’s just like literal dollars in forms of products and content are just sitting there Because you’ve already done you’ve already done the work.
[00:20:25] You’ve already built up the expertise. You just don’t realize it yet
[00:20:27] Tim Forkin: Yeah, I’m thinking of our guy KC on our HeyCreator team And I was listening right now and his newsletter is called fit dad life. Guess what? He’s a fit dad You know, like his life has informed the kind of that he talked about. He’s an expert, right?
[00:20:39] Matt Ragland: Yeah. I mean, the other thing about KC, just as a, as a quick add on is like, he’s an automation, like project management wizard. And like, he could just as easily talk about how he understands like tools and integrations and automations and project management. He could talk about that just as easily as he could being, being a fit dad.
[00:20:56] Tim Forkin: Yep. And the other part for younger creators, like first part, don’t be an expert. Second part, don’t be an idol when you weren’t. I’m sorry. Right. Nobody is trusting a 22 year old life coach. Nobody’s trusting the 18 year old who’s flashing, flashing his dad’s car keys and showing you how to make 20 K a month.
[00:21:13] Matt Ragland: I thought you were going to bring that up. Yeah.
[00:21:15] Tim Forkin: The one that kills me the most is like these kids who are obviously posting pictures, like from a family vacation. And it’s like, they, it’s like, they’re like flashing like their watch that they got for Christmas and like their dad’s car. It’s like, Drake has a lyric of like, Posting pictures from vacations you took years ago or something like that.
[00:21:30] Like, um, that, that always kills me. And like, there’s a very strong incentive as a younger creator to look like you have it all figured out, right? Like you want to be the person these kids look up to. I made a video, we talked about it. Like, uh, the 18 year old who can show you how to make 20 K a month with their high ticket coaching.
[00:21:48] I had a kid reach out to me. His name is Parker. He’s like, Hey dude. Yeah. I’m following you on everything because I really love that video you made. I used to look up to creators like that, and I realized that they don’t like a have the things that they say they have or the businesses that they say they do.
[00:22:02] And be like, I don’t want to be like that. I just want to help people. And getting messages like that, obviously, is a great feeling. But it’s true. Like if you. Are in this age group of like a I’ll say under 26 maybe like you’ll you’ll see these people who look like they have it all figured out you follow these youtubers who are living your dream life and you’re just like If I act like them if I fake it till I make it then I get to become them People believe me and buy from me and then all of a sudden I have what I wanted The real way is to just like talk about the things that interest you, talk about what you’ve learned, document the process, like people want to follow along with you to get there, or they won’t believe that you are there if you’re not.
[00:22:40] So, don’t be an expert, don’t be an idol. Those are my two pieces of it. I like that. I
[00:22:43] Matt Ragland: like that a lot. The next one that I have is something that I wish I had figured out so much earlier, and it’s asking myself a really clear question. It’s like, what do I want out? Of this creator content like is it for fun or is it a business?
[00:22:59] It took me way too long to answer that question because like looking back I realized I was doing too much Of the content for fun And you might think to yourself well content It’s supposed to be fun. And yes, it is. But when you’re just thinking like, Oh, I’m going to have fun doing this, then often we’ve talked about this.
[00:23:17] It can lead to too many like differentiated topics. People don’t know what to associate you with. Like you are just talking about whatever like seems fun to you. And unless people already know you, we’ve talked about this. Unless people already know you’d be like, well, cool. He seems fun, but he’s all over the place.
[00:23:34] I don’t know like what I’m actually going to get out of this. When you are making this a business, I’m not saying you have to figure this out from day one. We’ve talked about the hourglass effect, but you need to figure out pretty quickly if the answer to this is money and it’s okay and great. If the answer is money and figuring out the business of it, then that’s where you need to, like, as soon as possible, figure out what’s your niche, what’s the primary topic, who’s, what’s the ideal customer profile, what kind of problems do they have?
[00:24:02] Like understanding each of those pieces is something that took me a couple of years to figure out. And even when I was starting on YouTube, I spent like 10 months having fun. And I do think that’s important because you need to get the reps in. But eventually if the Outcome is I want to have a business around this, then you got to get focused on what the elements of that business is.
[00:24:25] Tim Forkin: Yeah. This is so connected to my last one and. I think it’s so like, so, so, so, so important. I’m glad you said this one here. Like you have to know what you want out of it. When I was writing about the pistons and sports and trying to be a sports creator, it’s cause I wanted to be a beat reporter. I wanted to be like a famous like sports name.
[00:24:45] Right. Then like, can I say to my next one? Like I, I want the money, like wasn’t really clear how I’d make the money on it. Right. So, uh, I wanted the position and like I put everything into it, but I realized it’s not actually what I wanted. Right. The same thing with like my foray into becoming a videographer, like everything you do, you, you can’t like succeed in it.
[00:25:06] If you’re not clear what you want out of it. And an add on to that is that I think everyone should have their small little project. That is only for fun, right? You don’t even ever have to publish it
[00:25:15] Matt Ragland: right now. Like my fun project is like working with dads. Uh, and so like, I have a little community for that and I send out a newsletter sometimes, but it’s not a business it is focused.
[00:25:25] So like it probably could become a business down the road and it’s, it’s just fun. But because it’s just fun, I’m not in there every day, uh, like posting and asking questions the way that I would for, HeyCreator, I’m not writing a weekly newsletter like I do for like. Like I do for HeyCreator. I’m not publishing like all these things that I do for the business.
[00:25:44] Those aren’t things that I’m doing for the thing that’s fun, but it’s still there and it’s fun, which helps, you know, like me release some creative energy that maybe I wouldn’t get in other places.
[00:25:53] Tim Forkin: Yeah. That’s so valuable. I’m really glad you brought that up. I,
[00:25:56] Matt Ragland: but I’m not trying to make it a business.
[00:25:57] I’m not like, Hey, I’ve got to make a hundred K out of this. Like that’s different.
[00:26:01] Tim Forkin: Yeah. I highly encourage everyone. It, you should have a business part of it if you so choose, but if you only want to create for fun and create for fun, you don’t have to listen to us on this monetization stuff or anything like that.
[00:26:14] Like we’ll, we’ll focus on like the more mindset episodes that we do. You should always have a little fun outlet. No one has to see it. Or if you want to keep track of something, or if you want to follow something, maybe you just like post them to the void on a separate like Twitter account about like, maybe that’s your anon thing.
[00:26:31] Your anonymous, your anonymous account, like whatever you want to create about for fun, I highly recommend. You
[00:26:43] Matt Ragland: know those awesome HeyCreator newsletters that go out once or twice a week? The ones that sign off from me, Matt Ragland? Well, I’m not really writing those. Not directly, anyway. The reason those newsletters sound so much like me is because they’re coming directly from the back catalog of content. And I have the team at Automatic Evergreen to thank for that.
[00:27:00] They research, write, edit, and send weekly newsletters on our behalf, so that I can spend more time on the podcast and more time in the community. If you’re looking to send high converting newsletters that make you money, you can book a call at automatic evergreen. com.
[00:27:18] Tim Forkin: My last one is that I see a lot of my friends who want to become creators and they only know like the art side of being a creator and they don’t know the business side of being a creator. And I would encourage, gosh, that took me so long to figure out. Bye. Exactly. Like I would encourage those specific people.
[00:27:38] I mean, I can name if you want, like, don’t get so hung up on making art that you forget to run the whole business side of this and friends who want to make the best looking videos, write beautiful words, create content for these famous athletes and artists who like, you actually can get in the door there and make a lot of money, but it’s so hard.
[00:27:57] And like, you should chase it. You can’t sustain it. If you’re not making money from it, like there’s nothing glamorous about a suffering creator who chase their passion so hard that they can’t afford to eat. Right. Like if people say the same thing about artists, but like becoming a creator is the business side of it to like chase all these things you want to do, but you have to have the income to do it.
[00:28:19] And if you can make that income come from your creative work, it keeps you in the game much, much longer. And Nat, Nat talked about this. Like you do what keeps you creating and. I would encourage like the business side of it to like come underneath the work that you’re doing.
[00:28:33] Matt Ragland: It makes me think of, well, a couple of things.
[00:28:35] My, my friend, Jeff Goins, one of my favorite books of his, he’s an author in Franklin, uh, Tennessee, not, not too far out in Nashville. And he’s one of my oldest internet friends, but one of my favorite books of his is called Real Artists Don’t Starve. And I was like, Oh, that’s such a good title, such a good title.
[00:28:52] He told me that, I mean, it was like, you know, seven years ago at this point, I was like, that’s, that’s the best title you’ve come up with. Uh, I really liked that. And it also, it makes me think about, you know, sometimes you gotta, sometimes you gotta pay the bills. To do the art like I just got done. I’m so glad I have a chance to talk about this in just a little way.
[00:29:11] Like this week I finally watched Dune two and Dune two was incredible and it is like, I think it’s a great movie. I have very few notes, very few knits to pick, but you know. Actors do this all the time. They make the really big movie that’s going to pay them a lot of money so that they can go out and do the Art House movie next, so that they can do an A24 movie and be like, you know, take, take less money, still a good bit of money, but take less money for them.
[00:29:39] To be able to do an art film that they feel really strongly about. And so like, don’t lose sight of that as a creator. Like there is a business side, there is a monetization side. Like don’t feel like you have to make or take less money. Like that was a big eye opener for me as well. Took me years to figure that out.
[00:29:57] Tim Forkin: You see this in. Like entertainment or fashion or like niches that aren’t like Entirely connected to revenue. Like when you watch sports, you’re not thinking about making money from watching sports. When you are into fashion, you’re not, you’re thinking about spending the money on the clothes. You’re not thinking about like becoming a fashion creator.
[00:30:16] Right. Same thing with tech in a sense, like you can, like, you want to be these things and you want to chase it down so hard, but like, if you’re not making the money gaming same way, like if you’re not making the money to support. The thing that you actually want to do from the thing, you have to find the way to make the money doing it.
[00:30:35] And for some that’s only YouTube or that’s only donations on like live streams, stuff like that. I don’t, that’s a world I don’t know too much about, but you have to have the money part of it. Right. You real artists don’t start like that’s, that’s the thing. If I, if I were to rewrite what I have on my screen, that’s how I would phrase it.
[00:30:50] So what a title.
[00:30:51] Matt Ragland: Great title. Shout out to shout out to Jeff. My next piece of advice for creators is as you start to build this like recurring consistency, because a lot of what we talk about when it comes to content is like, is weekly, weekly or daily, but let’s just say weekly for the sake of like, not like making people break into hives thinking about daily content on, on the show.
[00:31:11] When you start to like get in a rhythm and you’re like, okay, this thing. That used to take me six hours to do each week now because I have like I’m more confident I know what I’m talking about. I know how to do things easier now. It’s down to four Uh, if you want to add in a couple more hours to something else what I encourage you to think about is like what is What is a long term a longer term goal that I can work on that will help me Like improve my content Or improve or build my business going forward.
[00:31:43] And what I mean by this is like, if you’re doing, say the weekly, this is what I did. If you’re doing the weekly YouTube video, now you can start to add in like, okay, can I work on a newsletter for like a couple hours every week? And the other way to think about it. Is what kind of product or offer could I build in?
[00:32:03] And how can I say like for a month or a quarter, depending on what my expectations might be, can I work on a course? Can I work on some kind of template for, for the next month to see, like, is there something I can add into this? So like, after you have established the habit and the confidence and the consistency, next part is like start to protect a couple hours each week at minimum.
[00:32:27] For a goal that might take you four to six to eight to twelve weeks to just steadily build on It’s to work on work on your goal setting some of your project management skills to be able to Build something that isn’t just weekly recurring like build something that has more of a lasting asset to it So you can And like, this could be, this could be an ebook, a course, any, any number of things, but it’s giving yourself something that isn’t quite as like being on the hamster wheel, something that you can use as a, as an ongoing asset.
[00:32:58] You just, as Jack Butcher likes to say, like you build it once, you sell it twice or thrice or however many times you can do it.
[00:33:06] Tim Forkin: Yeah. What you’re saying, like in regards to like the actual business side of it is don’t work in your business, work on your business, right? Yeah. Yeah, it’s a good good way to frame it on the content side like you are Building something that can become the business part of it, right?
[00:33:21] So uh, many creators only see like the youtube ad revenue or like the the Monetization coming from like platform specific outputs, but if you can have something that you own and build and sell in the background of everything that you’re already doing, like that’s, that’s massive, right? Like that’s, it’s not the obvious thing, but.
[00:33:43] If you spend a month on a course in the background of your content, you’ve probably already built enough people to where you could test it out with some of them. And then when you get to a point where you want to, or if you want to sell it immediately, like you, you just have something else.
[00:33:56] Matt Ragland: Yeah. And when you take time to do this, you’re going, the audience will help you figure out like literally just through the way that you talk to them, the way that they comment on things, the email responses that you might get the comments and videos or on social posts.
[00:34:11] You will be able to through direct outreach and DMS. You will be able to, I promise, like you’ll be able to figure out what the best type of product for your audience is. Like it will, it will come to you. It will become clear. I want to tack on. A little bit of advice that’s related to like the business talk that we’ve been doing because this is another thing that I wish I had done earlier.
[00:34:34] This is advice, like, especially if you’re leaning into this as a revenue source, what you should do is have a small thing. That you can sell that’s going to help you begin to validate interest in a bigger idea. I waited way too long to start selling something because some bad advice that I had, and we’ll come back to this, was like, Hey, you shouldn’t, you shouldn’t launch a product until you have like 10, 000 email subscribers or more.
[00:35:01] And that, that can take a while. I’m just going to let you know. And, So this was something that, or I thought like, Hey, if I was going to do a course, then it needed to be like 10 lessons and five hours of content and like all this 10 modules, 30 lessons, like it had to be like this big thing, like masterclass level video.
[00:35:23] And I wish I would have like tried to sell a template first or done a paid like live workshop, kind of like a webinar, but, but for money or even like, And I’ve already mentioned Justin, uh, Welsh once, why not again, how he did his, like, LinkedIn OS or Content OS, which is basically two hours of, like, loom videos of him going, going through slides and, like, different pages on the internet showing you examples of things.
[00:35:48] Like, I wish I would have done something That fits like that, like small thing that I can do in a weekend or a week, or maybe that’s your goal for the month outside of the regular posting, like to connect back to that piece of advice. That’s what I wish I had done to start to what, what, one, because it feels great to make money on the internet and it would validate or invalidate a bigger, like, Product idea that I had because if I can sell something to enough people at fifty dollars at a hundred dollars Then I would feel way more motivated and validated to create to create the 10 module 30 lesson 500 course
[00:36:26] Tim Forkin: you want to be making money as you validate that idea Right.
[00:36:30] Like the, it kind of aligns with what I said previously is like, you have to find a way to make money doing the thing. And if the thing is a 9 template or maybe an hour of your time for start off with like 49 bucks, just some way where you can make money. And gain insights on the thing that you can sell for five X.
[00:36:52] That first thing.
[00:36:53] Matt Ragland: I have a, I have a little, I have a little thing for anyone listening. Cause you put a very specific price point out, even though it’s just a suggestion and you set it off hand, never, ever, ever, ever, ever charged less than a hundred dollars an hour for you getting on a call to talk about the thing that you’re good at.
[00:37:07] Never, ever, ever, ever, never less than a hundred.
[00:37:09] Tim Forkin: Just if we’re talking about barriers here or like the thresholds here, never do a sponsored post or brand deal for less than 500.
[00:37:16] Matt Ragland: I love it. Yeah. There’s a, there’s a quick story that always stuck with me and I didn’t start to really like, uh, believe it or act on it for like years after hearing it.
[00:37:26] But I remember, uh, Chase Jarvis, who is this, uh, photographer and he, I think, I think the name of his business is like create, I think he runs creative live. When he was getting started, the normal day rate for, uh, early photographer, for a pretty new photographer like him, was like, maybe 1, 000. But he wanted to be the 5, 000 a day photographer, and he would like, talk to Red Bull, he would talk to Nike, and he’d be like, Oh, my rate is 5, 000.
[00:37:50] Like, oh, you don’t, like, oh, that’s We don’t have that like budget for it. Maybe Nike Red Bull wasn’t the right example, but he would tell people like I, I’m 5, 000 a day. I’m 10, 000 a day. Basically what was at the top of the food chain for photographers. And even if that budget wasn’t in there for them, then he had like positioned himself in their mind as like, The 10, 000 a day photographer.
[00:38:15] And so when they did have the budget or a word would get around, be like, Oh, chase. Yeah. His day rates, 10 grand. They’re like, Oh, we have a budget for that. And he takes cool photos. Boom. We’re in. Gosh, just don’t undersell yourself. This took me so, so many years, so many years to figure
[00:38:29] Tim Forkin: out one last small piece.
[00:38:31] And this is more resonant for you, Matt. I think you are an example of this. A lot of people glamorize these. Big, super successful creators who don’t have like strong relationships and families who just like are solo and on their own, like single dude with X amount of money or single lady with X amount of money and businesses and whatever.
[00:38:51] And they don’t have relationships or families where you think you have to be successful to. Have a relationship or a marriage or a family and like, it’s not one or the other. Like some people make it seem like you can still be a creator, but as much time as you possibly can into your content and have a strong relationship and family.
[00:39:08] Uh, there’s like a whole sector of like red pill, bro creators who like, You make the money. So all the women want you and vice versa. Like
[00:39:18] Matt Ragland: I don’t even follow those people. I don’t either.
[00:39:21] Tim Forkin: I don’t either, but it’s just almost unavoidable at this point to see that stuff and like being a creator, running a creative business is not exclusive to having a wonderful home family life.
[00:39:32] And I don’t have kids yet. I have an awesome relationship, but I don’t have kids yet. And like, I actually think like being in a relationship gave me the confidence to start doing all this creative stuff again. It’s like, okay, I’m secure in who I am. Right. So. If you’re creating out of a place of insecurity to get those things, or like, you don’t want those things because they might get in the way of the thing you’re chasing, it’s wasted effort.
[00:39:54] Like, time wasted that you could have spent, like, cultivating an awesome life.
[00:39:57] Matt Ragland: Yeah, I mean, I appreciate you saying that. Um, it is something that I’ve been very intentional about. And even though there are definitely times, there are days, like, I wish that I could go really hard on, like, this project for another couple hours, or I wish that I did have a whole weekend to just, like, grind, grind this thing out and get ahead, I do feel perpetually behind in the things that I want to do.
[00:40:23] But, you know, I also realize, and this is, this is key, that, you know, having kids didn’t really affect that, like, mindset in a big way either. I have, like, I’ve always felt like, uh, my friend Charlie Gilkey says this, like, my reach is further than my grasp, or, like, the things that I want are just, like, a little, a little further away regardless of whether I have kids or not.
[00:40:44] But I’ll say, like, good relationships are things that keep you grounded even when Work creator like if I have a video that doesn’t like work out and I was to tell creator friends about that they’d be like, ah Sucks your launch didn’t go as well or like ah It sucks to see that nine out of ten on that video that you worked really hard on But I can go home and like talk to my kids and they’re gonna be like, ah, you had a bad video That’s okay.
[00:41:09] Daddy. Let’s go play and be like, yeah, let’s go play and it’s just like it’s a great way to stay grounded Um, yeah, I mean there’s nothing hard. There’s nothing wrong You With working really hard, like before you have kids or like having like a lot of ambition or focus on, I’d like, there are times that I wish I had been like a little bit more focused on like greater career, just like personal growth in general before, like the kids before the kids came, but yeah, they, I’m glad you said that.
[00:41:37] Cause it is true. Like they make everything like. Worth it and give it, uh, my wife also like it’s, it’s fantastic. So yeah, I don’t want you to think that if you have a lot of commitments, like you can still carve out a meaningful amount of time every single week to like, start to make progress on that. Uh, I’m, I’m not perfect and I made lots of mistakes and it took me a little longer than I would have wanted to, but that’s, you know, that’s what I’ve done.
[00:42:02] Over the past nine years.
[00:42:09] Thank you for listening to the HeyCreator podcast. This show was produced by Tim Forkin and would not be possible without the support of our incredible team at HeyCreator and the HeyCreator community. Make sure you connect with us on all of the socials at HeyCreator Hey, and for more information on our company, go to heycreator.com and also sign up for the newsletter while you’re there. See you next time.
