[00:00:00] Matt Ragland: Hey creators. I want to tell you about the sponsor of today’s show and it is Riverside FM. Now I love using Riverside for the HeyCreator podcast, but we use it at HeyCreator for many other things, including client interviews and community calls. At times it is. It is the best tool that I have found for recording podcast episodes, either by myself here with Tim or with our guests.
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HeyCreator! In today’s episode of the podcast, I talked with one of my oldest creator and internet friends, Alexis Teichmiller. We talked about the move of going from full time employee to full time creator, and then actually going forward. Into a full time role at a company. Again, these days, Alexis is the senior brand partnerships manager at circle, which is the community platform that we use to run HeyCreator.
We also talked about the different community business models that creators can use and how to use signature gatherings in your community to help it grow and stay engaged. I really enjoyed this conversation with Alexis. Like I said, she’s one of my oldest friends on the internet. And we have a lot of shared history and we told some stories about the convert kit days.
And the other thing that I really liked about this, that I think you’ll get a lot out of is there was a challenge in the HeyCreator community that kind of, kind of was a dud didn’t go very well. I wasn’t as prepared as I want it to be in retrospect. And I gave her this situation and she gave me like some live coaching consulting.
So I think you’ll get a lot out of that. I know I did. I can’t wait to implement the changes that she suggested in the HeyCreator community this summer. So go ahead, get ready. We’re going to have a really good time with Alexis. I hope you enjoy.
Alexis, you are one of my oldest. Internet friends, one of my oldest creator friends. So I’m really excited to have you on the podcast today.
[00:03:12] Alexis Teichmiller: Thank you so much That gives me the warm and fuzzies right out the gate So I agree when I think of like online friends slash in person at one point for us That really like mentored My journey, you would be one of those people.
So this is a full circle moment. No pun intended. I’m excited. Did you plan that? No, I didn’t. I
[00:03:35] Matt Ragland: was like, just, you know, this is the kind of things just happen and these kind of things, that’s awesome. Yeah. Amazing. Yeah. I mean, you’re someone that I’ve always admired the work that you do, the content that you create, how, uh, I, I think that.
One of the things that I really like is how, like, willing you are to follow what is interesting to you and, uh, do, like, the kind of work and create the kind of content that, say, like, hey, this is what I feel like the world needs and it’s an intersection of what I enjoy doing as well, uh, We met working at ConvertKit.
I think I was number five and you were like eight, nine
[00:04:15] Alexis Teichmiller: Something in there. Something
[00:04:17] Matt Ragland: single digits in the single digit club and We worked together at ConvertKit For several, several years together, which was, you know, I was talking to Darrel about this earlier today and yeah, it was really like kind of a magic carpet ride moment of like Doubling every month for several months and it was it was really wild What do you remember about that time or how did you get into I know the connection point was Darrell But like getting into that convert kit world and kind of the you had been doing some work with creators before that But did you been had you been creating content on your own at that point?
or what was this is and this is 2015, 2016.
[00:04:55] Alexis Teichmiller: Right.
[00:04:56] Matt Ragland: So this is back in the day.
[00:04:57] Alexis Teichmiller: Back in the day, almost a decade. Um, yes. So I moved to Nashville in 20. 15 to work for a, uh, New York times, bestselling author. His name is Rory Baden. He now is the founder of brand builders group. And he gets to work with like Lewis house at my lead.
He was an early mentor to me, worked with him for a year. And I was actually at social media marketing world. Shout out to social media marketing world in San Diego. I attended that. I’ve never been to
[00:05:28] Matt Ragland: that one.
[00:05:29] Alexis Teichmiller: Really? I think it’s
[00:05:30] Matt Ragland: a behemoth, right? It’s huge.
[00:05:32] Alexis Teichmiller: It’s so big. It’s like
[00:05:33] Matt Ragland: Sastr for tech.
[00:05:35] Alexis Teichmiller: Yes. It’s like an expo essentially for social media creators, usually like corporate teams to, to come in and learn about social media trends.
Um, but Rory was one of the keynote speakers. And so I got to attend and, you know, learn as his marketing assistant at the time I’m 22. And lo and behold, who do I meet? I meet Nathan Barry and Darrelll Vesterfelt and we hit it off, ended up just hanging out. Catching up all weekend. And at the end of that weekend, Darrell asked me, he said, are you looking for a new job?
I said, depends what, what are you thinking? And, uh, two months later I joined the team at ConvertKit. What I remember about that time in my life was one, I always wanted to align myself with leadership that I deeply respected and that I could learn from. And that from a character and integrity perspective really felt very aligned with who I was as a person.
I just couldn’t see myself going through life. Working with, or for people that genuinely weren’t good human beings. And I think that’s what drew me to Rory had an amazing first year post grad with him and his team. And then that’s what eventually led me to kind of the ethos of ConvertKit and then onto other chapters and seasons of my life now being at Circle.
Um, but yeah, that’s something I really remember is just like that click, that like initial value chemistry, if you will, where you’re like, Oh yeah. Yeah. We, we’re aligned. This seems like organic. This seems like we’re going to create something really meaningful together.
[00:07:14] Matt Ragland: That point about working with people who, like, obviously you really respect, but have, like, high moral character, you had to, to say it in, like, the same, same kind of way, like, I definitely felt that, uh, working with Nathan, you know, certainly still feel that about him.
Uh, someone asked me online, uh, Couple, couple of weeks ago and like, Hey, do you feel like you left ConvertKit too early? And I was like, hold on, this is, this is an intense, this is an intense comment for, for my mentions.
[00:07:45] Alexis Teichmiller: That’s funny. What did you think?
[00:07:48] Matt Ragland: Yeah, it was a good question. I might turn it around to you as well.
It’s like, I don’t think that I left too early. So I’d been there almost four years at the time. I just had an opportunity to grow and like be in a different, a different role at Podia. And I really liked being at Podia. But the other reason that I say that is I was like at the time, this was in 2019. I was on the path of knowing that I wanted to, you know, have my own creator business that I wanted to like, have, have a company of my own.
So like, it was a natural progression for me, but I did say back to this person, Sean, shout out to you, that I’ve always felt like ConvertKit is a place that I could like, Go back to also now, I don’t know if they would have me back, but I would be willing to go back at some point. He’s listening to this.
He’s like, eh, you know, we’ll see how the next couple of years go. Um, so that is, yeah. Cause you know, anytime I go to craft and commerce or like just see anyone on the team, like, ah, I enjoy being, I enjoy being with, with you people. It just, just amazing, incredible folks.
[00:08:54] Alexis Teichmiller: Yeah. The love that you feel is, is amazing.
I, I, in terms of the question. Do I feel like I left ConvertKit too early? For me, I’d been there for a little over four years, kind of around that same mile marker as you. And I was also at the stage where I was, you know, in my later twenties and I had access to so many incredible Six, seven, eight figure entrepreneurs.
I was the affiliate manager at ConvertKit and helped grow that program. And so as a result, I got to be in rooms, a
[00:09:27] Matt Ragland: behemoth,
[00:09:28] Alexis Teichmiller: she was a big program. Um, we did about, I think at that stage, when I left, we had brought in around 22 million of revenue from the affiliate program, which was just unreal. And very proud of that.
Like that was a career highlight for me, something I could definitely hang my hat on, but. I got to build these amazing relationships and see behind the scenes of people’s businesses. I know that you know this from the work that you do. You start to say, this is possible. This is possible for me. I can do this.
And you start to think through all the different ways that you could be making an impact, be earning income, your, your. Income ceiling is really limitless. Like you can really make as much money, I think in the creator economy, like more so than you can in a salaried capped job. So, you know, there’s all these different pros and cons, but at the stage for me, I was ready to go out on my own and risk it and take that big leap.
And I. I don’t regret when I left. I think the timing was perfect.
[00:10:30] Matt Ragland: I’m glad you said that because it is something like through, through ConvertKit and through some of the other, through Podia and even some of the. Things that I’ve been able to do, you do have access to, like, seeing behind the scenes of, like, people that you admire, you get to be in the room with them, you get to work with them in some instances, and it is interesting to see, like, it kinda, sometimes you see, you know, People will say like, don’t meet your heroes, but at the same time, it’s like, it’s nice to meet your heroes and have a better idea and understand like, Oh, okay.
This is the type of business that could be run. And this is how things connect. And sometimes you, you know, and we won’t name any names particularly, but cause like all these businesses are different, but in some ways you can kind of say like, Oh, this is not as put together as I might’ve thought.
[00:11:19] Alexis Teichmiller: Correct.
[00:11:20] Matt Ragland: I can also like maybe have a bit of a messy business. It doesn’t. have to be perfect on the back end and like everything’s running properly and all you know, this, these businesses that people you admire run are, you know, In all these cases, obviously they’re successful businesses, but if you think that people aren’t making mistakes or like there, there isn’t like heck, there aren’t hectic launches, like those things are happening in all types of businesses.
And to be able to see that from the back end and be like, Oh, okay, it doesn’t all have to be perfect. I can go ahead and get started with this.
[00:11:54] Alexis Teichmiller: Yeah. Yeah, it’s definitely very eye opening for sure. I would say too, you can romanticize the leap from the W2. Oh, I,
[00:12:04] Matt Ragland: I definitely did. I did.
[00:12:06] Alexis Teichmiller: I romanticized, I don’t know if we can cuss, but I romanticized the crap out of the creator journey from being, you know, on the business side, working in software, software, tools that support creators and entrepreneurs and then becoming one was a really interesting jump for me.
Um, my first couple of months went really, really great. My first six months I was earning, you know, great income. I had multiple sources of income. And then, you know, the, that’s almost like the, the high of the six months of leaving kind of died down. And I’m like, wow, okay. So I have to make this sustainable.
How am I gonna make money? Contracts are ending. I need to find new clients like, right. I was a coach slash consultant and I was still trying to figure out what, I feel this, so I feel this so hard what my offering was . So like, yeah, here I am. I left this really great team, great product, great growth trajectory to go start my own thing.
Mm-Hmm , which was risky and I was ready for it. But then I had to work myself through the mental mindset of, okay, we need to figure out new processes and new ways that we work because we now came from a team to now a team of one and nothing is going to happen unless you make it happen. You will not make money unless you ask for it or you go after it or you pitch yourself.
And so that was something I really had to, Learn, and I know that probably sounds really simple, but it was something that I just didn’t expect. I’m like, well, all these people make it seem so easy.
[00:13:40] Matt Ragland: Right. It should be
[00:13:41] Alexis Teichmiller: easy for me, too.
[00:13:43] Matt Ragland: Yeah, I’m a smart person. I’m, you know, I try, I try hard, I work hard. You know, I know how to do things.
[00:13:49] Alexis Teichmiller: Yeah.
[00:13:49] Matt Ragland: Yeah, it is like, I mean, I heard, I can resonate with so much of that. And the other thing for me was like, there was like this, Feeling of, I don’t know if disappointment is the right word, but it’s like, in the first year that I, like, worked on my own, my, and I don’t know if this is similar for you, but, like, my income went up for the business.
And I was like, yay! Part of me was like, yay! I made a lot more money because I worked on it full time. However, Uh, if you look at it in terms of the year before, I had a W 2, plus, uh, plus the bonuses that ConvertKit pays, plus what was my side hustle money last year, and I actually made less money in my first year.
Yeah. And like, Mentally, I wasn’t really prepared for that. I was actually talking about this with, uh, Darrell and I started a mastermind today, the day of this recording. Oh. And I was like, yeah. You know, when I, when I started, I was just like, well, it’s just gonna be six fi six figure launch after six figure launch baby.
It’s just gonna be easy peasy. The money’s just, I have the automations, I have a product. You just hit send and like money’s gonna flow. All the sales money comes to me. Gonna just gonna come in. It comes to me. Yeah. Oh man. I’ve said that a lot of times. Still do, still do. We love an abundant mindset,
[00:15:08] Alexis Teichmiller: but the abundant mindset has to be like connected with action and reality and grounded, a grounded abundance means, yes, I believe that there are opportunities and money and things coming to me and for me.
And I also have to be responsible for taking action to make those things happen for me. They don’t just land in the lap.
[00:15:28] Matt Ragland: Yeah. It’s like there is, uh, my brother is a really big poker player. That’s how he put himself through college, which is pretty. Pretty funny, but you know, there’s a poker saying it’s like, luck is where action meets opportunity.
Um, so it’s like, that’s where, that’s where like the great, the great things can happen. I think that you said that really well.
As a creator, one of the most important things I’ve learned is that it’s impossible to be on this journey alone. I needed other creators in my circle for accountability. For support to learn from and to grow with. And this is why we started the HeyCreator community. It’s a place to connect with like minded creators to follow a proven roadmap of success and get the support you need to build your creator business.
For more information, just go to HeyCreator. com slash community.
One thing that I’d love to ask you about, because it doesn’t get talked about enough is a left convert kit. You went out on your own and you did this. And like, I think for all of us, we’ve already talked about there’s, there’s ups and downs of that, but then you also decided to go back into the startup software world and join circle.
What made you like. Have that decision and like, what were some of the process around it? Because there can be like when someone decides to like be a creator and then go back to doing like something else, there’s kind of a, got a lot of feelings that go into that I’m sure. And a lot goes into a decision, uh, of that nature.
So it’s not something that’s talked about a lot in the creator world. So I’d love to talk about some with you.
[00:17:01] Alexis Teichmiller: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for asking this because I hope that it helps someone. Who might be in the middle of this decision feel a little bit more seen. So for me, I did have to get to a place where I saw going forward to a W 2.
And this is a big thing around language that I had to wrestle with. Like, Oh, I’m going back to a job. I’m going back to a W 2. I’m glad you
[00:17:27] Matt Ragland: pointed that out. And
[00:17:28] Alexis Teichmiller: yeah, it’s just common. It’s common language. But something I had to choose was I’m moving forward. And what makes sense for me moving forward was joining the team at circle.
But as a creator, I had to wrap my head around. I’m not a failure. You know, I’m not going to look at these past 18 months with a lens of disappointment. Look at everything I learned about myself through this process. And if anything, I was prepping myself skill wise as a coach and everything else I was learning in my business.
To then step into this role at circle with confidence and know exactly what I wanted. Now, when I left ConvertKit, I was still the affiliate manager. I was the affiliate manager for four years, and I was really wanting to get more into partnerships, brand, have a role in the way that the brand was viewed in terms of its partnerships, who it worked with and different campaigns surrounding those partnerships.
And at the time. That’s something that ConvertKit was not ready for. Um, and when I left, I told myself if I ever take another job, I will not go back and be an affiliate manager again. So I think having those specific. prerequisites mentally for you to know, like, if you do decide to move forward with the W2 again, know what your, um, your criteria is.
And so when I took the call, actually, this is, this is really cool. So Pat Flynn, um, he is a good dear friend of mine and someone I got to work with very closely at ConvertKit. It’s so crazy that all of this happened at the same time. So I do believe in divine timing and. My husband and I was, I will never forget this is November of 2021.
We had sat down, we were reviewing our finances and my business was not generating what it needed to generate in order for us to support, um, the family. So we were fully living off of my husband’s income, which I understand is a privilege. And so he was just supporting me getting off the ground, but we were 18 months in and it was still not where I really wanted it to be and knew that it could be.
And so we had to start making some decisions and start thinking like, okay, are we all in on this or do we want to look at what else is out there? And no joke. Without even needing to do any outreach the next week, I had three job offers or like job job potentials, like, yeah, again, like, because I was open something out there in the universe or God was like, you know what, I think Alexis is ready for what’s next.
And I had literally that next week I had three different meetings. For potential jobs and very quickly, they turned into like, we want to hire you. And one of them was a connection that Pat had made. Pat had connected me with Andy Gatormsen, who I knew from Teachable. Cause we worked together a lot, ConvertKit and Teachable back in the day.
And Andy was like, Hey, we want to hire someone to run partnerships, affiliate program, but like really help like build out the partnerships function and the brand function at, at Circle. And that was again, the criteria. Like I knew. Who I wanted to be. I knew who I wanted to become. I knew the skills I had and I knew the skills I wanted to grow.
And I also knew the amount of salary that I wanted and needed to justify saying, giving my business less time. To build someone else’s business and so that was like, where I had to make sure that my criteria was checked in order for me to step forward with full confidence. And within a month I was hired and started, you know, January of 2022.
and so it’s been almost 2 and a half years now, but I do believe that when I think of career highlights. And like decisions and pivotal moments joining the team at circle was the best career decision I could have made at that point in time. And like, I have no regrets. I freaking love the product, love the team and I love what I get to do.
So yeah, I think it’s grown me a lot, but I do think that it can be very easy. To put yourself down, think about what if, Oh, well, the business didn’t work or like just that mindset junk that comes into play. But I don’t know. I just, I, if you focus on moving forward and what you need in order to do that, it does hopefully take the focus off of the negative and put it into like, what’s in your control.
And this is what you have control over.
[00:21:57] Matt Ragland: Yeah. I mean, I love that reframing just from my initial question of moving, moving forward and what is, what is best for, for me, what’s best for my family, especially, you know, there are definitely people, uh, listening and Morgan, my wife and I had lots of conversations when like I left Podia.
And then even when, like, I had some of these similar thoughts when I decided to like, stop doing like my YouTube channel full time is like to partner with Daryl at good people, digital and, and with, Heycreator, like, Am I like, am I quitting? Uh, is the business not working well enough? Is it not? Cause at the time we were also like living full time off of like my, my income and Morgan was working part time.
So, uh, the two, Together we’re like, okay, this makes better sense for our family to move, to move forward in, in this way. And yeah, you know, the, I love the, I love the thing about like having opportunities right away once you were open, once you were open to it. And one thing I think you would agree with this, but I’ll say it individually before I put it on, onto both of us is that like when you’re public with like.
The things that you’re thinking about and the way that you want to share. And basically like creating content, like, even though we talk a lot about from a business perspective, having a particular like niche and focus and topic and from a business perspective, that does matter, but protecting time and space and like postings to like, just like share more of your thoughts on like.
A lot of different parts of what you’re interested in. It makes you more accessible. It makes you more human. And what I, what I’m kind of getting to, what I’m getting to here is like, when you are ready to make an ask of people or say like, Hey, I have this thing that I’m ready to do, if you’ve been like showing up in the arena for a number of years,
[00:23:49] Alexis Teichmiller: yeah,
[00:23:49] Matt Ragland: then people are going to respond and they’re going to know like, Oh, I, Even like I have no intention of HeyCreator doing anything but crushing it for the next like five years and beyond but I also like one of the things that makes me like feel really like content and confident and that is like hey, I I don’t think i’ll ever have to like Really apply for a job again.
Like I see like commercials for Indeed and I’m like, Oh, that would suck. I I’m sad that people have to use those sometimes. Or like someone sent me a resume to review and I was like, I forgot that these exist. Um, and that again may sound privileged, but that’s also a part of like putting 10 years.
[00:24:33] Alexis Teichmiller: I agree.
I actually have only ever formally applied for. My first job out of college when I was 22. And there is something to be said about posting online, sharing, being a thought leader, being an expert in your craft, having results that are then made public. Like, even after I left, I know that Nathan had put out a couple of podcasts or a couple of interviews, um, for me.
On behalf of ConvertKit and talked about how much like the affiliate program played in its growth. Yeah. Which literally led to consulting contracts for me. Like people would like find me on LinkedIn and like, Oh, I, can we hire you for three, six months to get our affiliate program off the ground, which was meaningful income to me as a freelancer.
And so, but because I was still in the arena, it did, I like that framing that you used. It did make me top of mind in those ways. And then when Circle was ready for it, Pat’s like, you have to hire Alexis. And so there is something to be said about continuing to stay. Relevant and present and, uh, that kind of
[00:25:44] Matt Ragland: make yourself the obvious choice.
Yeah. I’m like, Oh, of course you’re going to hire Alexis. I hope so. Why would, of course, it’s amazing. Yeah. All right. So let’s talk about circle a little bit. Uh, you know, we’re big fans of community at HeyCreator. We use circle for our community platform. We love it and it’s growing and we love, we love the features.
We love everything that we can do. But, uh, what we do at HeyCreator is just one of several, like, different types of community business models that you see. So let’s talk through, let’s talk through some of those. And we also talked about pre show about some of the, like, types of gatherings that you see that are really successful.
[00:26:24] Alexis Teichmiller: Absolutely. And one thing I want to say before we even get into some of this nitty gritty is how exciting it is to work at a company that is so future focused. Like, I think even you and I with our background in tech and then the creator space, we have seen the evolution of a creator. Like, and we, you know, I don’t believe that that evolution is over, but I do feel like the culmination of a creator is the community that they create.
And so it’s really cool to see circle really like going all in on community in that way. And so it’s where, you know, you can host your courses, your forums, your live video, your memberships, like so much of that can run on, on circle, which was very exciting to me to, you know, I’ve been in the email marketing space for.
Years. I was like, okay, now I’m ready to be on the product side. Like the real product side. So that was, that was an interesting mental shift for me, um, to be from the audience growth to then being on like the monetization side of things. But in terms of monetizing your community, we see three core models at.
At circle one being cohort based and these are really popular. I find these to be really popular with people that want to go all in for a season, but then want time to rest and don’t want to have a evergreen always on membership. So. Popular cohort based courses, you know, they come in for four weeks and they get access to content, they get access to the community, they get access to maybe like live group coaching calls or live training calls, Q and A’s.
But then after the four weeks are over, you’re helping that individual achieve a specific result and then they achieve it, hopefully, and you help them do it and the community gives them the accountability and the energy to do it. And then the cohort is over. And then you run another one and we have people do that in two week chunks, four week chunks, three month chunks, like it depends on whatever cohort timeline you need to deliver transformation.
Um, with a, with a student.
[00:28:27] Matt Ragland: And I normally recommend that unless you just know. And like, I’m all in on like membership, subscription, I’m going to show up and I’m going to do it. That’s what I almost always recommend people start with. I actually try and talk people out. I was like, use Circle, but use it for a cohort for like two to three months and decide.
Cause it’s, I personally think like communities are the best long term business, but they might be the toughest short term business. Yeah, so I’ll let you keep going from there. It’s not
[00:28:55] Alexis Teichmiller: for the, the faint of heart. Like I can, I can go and create content online and start to build an audience. And it’s like, okay, this is, this is relatively easy ish.
You’re just putting something out there and helping people engage with it. Um, but the community piece is there’s usually. Uh, a monetary, um, aspect to it. So, you know, you’re paying for access for the, HeyCreator membership, you’re paying for access to courses or for the cohort based communities. And so you want to make sure that people are actually getting results and getting value.
So then you, as a community manager, sometimes feel that like, I want to deliver and I want to over deliver. So that’s something to be mindful of when you’re choosing between a cohort based or membership, which is the second most common, um, Community business model that we see is that evergreen ongoing.
That’s what the hate creator community has. And this is really popular. We’ve I’ve seen so many different pricing models for memberships. You know, there’s monthly. Quarterly is very big right now, annual and then lifetime. So come in, pay a lifetime fee. You get access to all the content, all the courses you can hang out for as long as you want, but they’re essentially just getting all of the revenue up front.
Um, monthly you really experience, I think that you have to be very mindful of churn and like. You know, you’re going to experience people coming in and then canceling a lot with monthly, quarterly and annually pricing can really help you kind of get people results over a longer period of time and lower that churn risk.
Um, and then the last most popular is free, you know, we see this with Facebook groups and, and Slack communities, discord communities as well. Um, but free. Is another potential model. We’re also seeing people leverage like freebies, like, which is very common in the email marketing space. You know, you have your landing page, sign up for a freebie, download my ebook, download my worksheet, download my free email course, whatever it is, um, right now people are leveraging a free space.
So not the whole community is free, but just a specific section of it is free. And they’re leveraging that as their freebie. And it’s where people can get engaged with each other. Right out the gate. And so there’s all these different ways that you can leverage community and leverage a tool like circle.
But I really think it’s really about knowing yourself, knowing your personality, knowing your time management preferences and how much energy you want to put in can really dictate what kind of community business model you choose.
[00:31:29] Matt Ragland: Yeah, and it can also help to think about, like, what kind of support do you already have in place?
Because I know one of the things that’s, like, a mental hurdle for me that I’m trying to do is, like, Oh, well, if I’m going to start a community, then I have to be the star of the community. And that means I have to, like, not only do I have to show up every day, which, you know, I should, uh, I do, maybe not every weekend, but to show up every day.
But also, like, I have to, like, do a thing. Every day instead of just engage and that’s sometimes that’s a bit of a limiting belief that I want to I People won’t think that you have to be like the super duper like show man show woman star every every day But that was something that I had to get over.
[00:32:08] Alexis Teichmiller: Yeah, it it is something to Depending on how you set up your community, that maybe you don’t have to do that. You are more of a facilitator, you bring in guest speakers, or you really teach your community members how to engage. You teach them how, you know, being in a community, in my opinion, especially online, is kind of like building a new habit.
Like, you’re helping someone figure out how to engage, how to get content, how to join a Q& A, but if it’s not something that they’re already doing, you have to teach them how to engage with you. And so a couple of these, what we call at Circle, signature gatherings. So when we’re talking about community, And if you haven’t engaged with hate creator community and you’ve got no idea what we’re talking about, here are a couple of things that we see as engagement pillars inside of a community.
So these signature gatherings are gatherings that keep people coming back again and again and keep them engaged and, um. You know, get them talking to each other, not just you, which is the whole point of community, you know, with email marketing and even social, a lot of those communications is just you and that individual back and forth.
The point of a community is to get your members talking to each other and learning from each other. So a few signature gatherings that we see, and some of my favorites, number one is hot seats. So if you are. You know, hosting a community or even a cohort based program or course on a specific result or on a specific niche, having a hot seat where someone comes in with a specific problem, they share it with the group live on a call.
And then you and the group give advice, tactics, strategies, feedback on how to help them solve it. That is so invaluable. Like, if I can have a hot seat with you, Ragland and Darrell every week, like I’m done, you know, like I’m, I’m fixed. I’ve got all my problems solved, but like, imagine, you know, people who all care about the same result who are all working on the same specific goal on
[00:34:10] Matt Ragland: the same journey.
[00:34:10] Alexis Teichmiller: Yeah, they’re on the same journey and you can help each other with that hot seat. I think the hot seats are, are, um, undervalued. Another one is accountability calls. So this is where. You can experience accountability in a couple different ways. You can have it on a call, you’re going to have accountability groups.
So you’re putting people in, you know, designated groups for DMS or in a space, but helping people get accountability. So whether that’s, Hey, every Friday we’re posting our wins or every Friday, we’re posting a screenshot of the email, the sales email we were going to send, or we’re posting a screenshot of our morning workout.
Like it doesn’t matter. But giving people that ritual where they’re like, okay, I want to post and I want to share that I’m actually taking action is something that people start to attach a lot of value to. They’re like, wow, you’re really helping me get things done. And I now want to celebrate by sharing that in the community.
Three is feedback as a service. So this is something that is a little bit more tedious, but depending on what your offering is, if you want to. Review your members work, or you have, maybe you have like moderators or admins in the community that are, um, you know, on your team that help review work. But this is where you can review, like, we see this a lot in writing communities, podcasting communities, even in marketing communities where people are submitting their work and they want someone to give them, like, the real nitty gritty.
Feedback, that’s an amazing, like signature gathering slash offering that people would pay money for. Um, the fourth one is challenges. So I was actually, you know, you and I prior were talking about signature gatherings and I was going to talk to you about challenges, Matt, but we’ll kind of loop back around.
I
[00:35:57] Matt Ragland: started one based on our last conversation. So how’s it going? It’s going okay. I think like for our first challenge,
[00:36:05] Alexis Teichmiller: we love the honesty.
[00:36:07] Matt Ragland: Okay. Uh, cause I think like, like in retrospect, I could have done a little bit more to like pump it up beforehand, but what we wanted to do was a social posting challenge.
Like you can post on LinkedIn or X or Instagram or whatever, but like, Hey, y’all need to practice like shipping your work more. and like showing up and like sharing your wins or talking about something specifically. And so like just getting people in the practice of publishing, uh, and so just doing that has been, has been a little challenging.
I want to, I want to be honest, but it is like, Cool to see and then like I can pull people in and say like hey the people who who do show up in post It’s cool to see like the screenshots like link here We go we go click over to them and like support each other and give them the boost So
[00:36:53] Alexis Teichmiller: why do you feel like it’s not working?
To your expectations, like what about it has been challenging? No pun intended with the challenge being challenging.
[00:37:02] Matt Ragland: Yeah. Why is the challenge challenging? Uh, like I said, I think I could have, um, I think I could have given people a little bit more of a heads up on it. Like I had kind of generally said, Hey, for these two weeks, I’m going, we’re going to be like practicing our, our social writing, social posting, but given giving more like, Hey, this is what it’s going to look like.
And, um, More frameworks also, like more examples. Say like, hey, like almost as if it was Mad Libs, just kind of plug in your stuff. And so that, that, that part, I think I just could have given people a little bit more. Like, you know, You forget about, like, I, we’ve talked about it. We’ve been doing this a long time that it’s like, what is it like to start posting on social consistently for the first time and like, not big things, like not overthinking, not overthinking it.
[00:37:55] Alexis Teichmiller: Yeah. Are you open to suggestions?
[00:37:57] Matt Ragland: Yes. I’d love suggestions.
[00:37:59] Alexis Teichmiller: Okay. So I think a way to like blow this up and I think you should do it again. So I know this is your first time, but I think you should do it again in like a month or two is to bring in partners. Bring in people who are experts in content, social media growth, and have them be like your pillar speakers throughout the challenge.
So let’s say the challenge is. Sorry, two weeks long, maybe you have like a big kickoff 60 minute workshop with a social media, like up and comer, like someone who’s in the last 12 months has really, because I feel like social media is so, it’s like always fresh. And so it’s like bringing in a fresh voice who has just done it could be interesting.
And then you maybe have a Q and a with that person the latter half of the week. And then the second week you bring in another expert who can like talk on a different strategy. But I think that would be interesting to one, you not having to create the net new content, but then you can lean on them for the frameworks and them for the content to help you like bring in more excitement around the challenge.
That’s a challenge I want to join. Like, that sounds fun.
[00:39:04] Matt Ragland: That’s great feedback. So thank you. Thank you for sharing it. And anyone listening also, the other thing that I feel like I could have done like in retrospect and someone actually like brought it up for a different challenge that they were on. I was like, Oh, like we just followed a prompt every day.
I was like, ah, damn it. Yes. I should have prompts every day. Post this about that. Or what’s like one thing from your story. And so when we do this again, and the other thing that I could have done, and this kind of goes back into the prep part or just something that I didn’t expect is like, we had just gotten off an email marketing sprint.
I’ve been talking about like how important email marketing is. And I do think it’s super important. Like it’s more important than social media, but social media is still important. But I, I think like. For the prior four weeks, I had basically downplayed the importance of social media. And then I was like, hey, we’re all going to post on social media every day.
And they’re like, what? I’m still like, you know, writing my welcome series. So I was like, yeah, put your welcome series into like, like use it as inspiration. So, um, I’m basically saying like, in retrospect, and this is part of like doing something live, if you’re willing to put yourself out there and be like, If I had spent two months putting together, like, what would have, like, been a better organized, probably.
But still, like, I would have made a lot of the same mistakes in two months if I had just, like, overthought it and tried to make it perfect. People would still, I know there still would have been things that people would have been like, Oh, uh, no, you should have done this. But now that I’m, like, in there, I’m like, Oh, I’m gonna do, I’m still gonna do the same thing again in two months.
And it’s gonna be way better if I had just, like, Thought about it and worked on it without anyone for two months.
[00:40:38] Alexis Teichmiller: Exactly. Get the feedback, iterate and do it again.
[00:40:43] Matt Ragland: Right, exactly. The last
[00:40:44] Alexis Teichmiller: signature gathering, which is similar to what we were just talking about is like those workshops and trainings. So even like you can combine all of these, you could do a challenge on posting on social media.
And then you can have a hot seat five days in where you start to kind of pick apart someone’s post and like share where they could have done better, or they could have added more detail. Like these signature gatherings are so mix and match, but the workshops with, I know you do office hours and you have the.
Um, you have the call, the Friday call with Darrell. Yeah,
[00:41:16] Matt Ragland: Friday calls more of the hot seat style because people get in and they’re like, Hey, I’m having this problem. And Darrell like does his, his Darrell magic. We’ve shared a couple of them, but one, one lady got on there and she was like, Oh, I’m getting ready to do a launch.
And he’s like, I’m going to plan your launch in 15 minutes. And he’s just like, and people are like, Oh my gosh, like this just paid for the whole year. That’s like. Yeah. Actually, it’s way more expensive, but
[00:41:42] Alexis Teichmiller: that’s true. That’s why you
[00:41:43] Matt Ragland: join. Heycreator.
[00:41:44] Alexis Teichmiller: Exactly. Yeah. They’re all playing
[00:41:46] Matt Ragland: your launch in 15 minutes,
[00:41:47] Alexis Teichmiller: the live calls, the workshops, the trainings, like they do add that extra layer of value in FaceTime.
And I think that it also plays a role on to. Like your payment. So whatever you’re charging for the community, whether it’s cohort or memberships, the more FaceTime you give your members, that’s more time out of your calendar. That’s more obviously energy for you. And so it’d be thinking about, you know, if you’re going live three times a week, I wouldn’t think that you’d be charging 20 a month.
You know, like there needs to be that level of financial commitment. For you and the member for it to make sense for you to offer so much of yourself that they also need to be investing in that experience so that it becomes sustainable, which is a big thing. I wanted to talk about is sustainability. So, if you are a new creator, or you’ve been doing it And you know, even for 6, 12 months and you’re kind of finding your footing, I think it’s really important to experiment with a lot of different kinds of content and a lot of different kinds of offers because you need to experience what it’s like to write a newsletter and hate it.
Create a YouTube video and love it. You
[00:43:02] Matt Ragland: hate writing, do you hate writing newsletters? No. I’m
[00:43:04] Alexis Teichmiller: just using examples. A little
[00:43:06] Matt Ragland: extra venom.
[00:43:07] Alexis Teichmiller: I’m using examples. But like, experiment with, okay, you, you go live on TikTok or you, you go all in on Reels. Like, give yourself the, the room and the grace. To really experiment with a lot of different kinds of creation when it comes to content, to figure out what it is that you like.
And the same thing applies to offers. You try one on one coaching, you try consulting, you try selling a course, you try selling digital products, you try selling physical products. You try partnering with a brand and you co create something like. The more that you experiment, the more clarity that you will get on what you really want.
And it’s tough when we sit on zoom or we sit in notion and we come up with these ideas But we don’t test them. We don’t take action on them It’s difficult for us to say it definitively This is sustainable and this like comes back to the sustainability piece is you want to Enjoy the business that you’re building.
And so if you push yourself and you say, I have to write a newsletter, release a podcast, release a new YouTube video and create four tick talks a week for the next 10 years. And I also need to support, you know, 15 one on one clients. I need to be launching a new course every, every quarter. I need to launch a membership community and run that like, Is that possible?
Yes. Is that sustainable? I think that’s questionable.
[00:44:31] Matt Ragland: Yeah, and is that even something that you want to be doing? So like not enough people like ask that question And like are you just building another job that you’re going to be unhappy in? Even if it’s one that you if it’s one that you control that is better But like we both know so many creators that have built up a business around them that they’re no happier in Yeah Then when they were doing something else, and I think that’s a really important like way to think about it.
Like, are you building a business that you, that you love and can see yourself doing for a long time?
[00:45:04] Alexis Teichmiller: Yeah. The other piece of advice really quick that I would give is don’t stop talking to your audience. I think this goes into when we start creating a lot of content and we start putting out a lot of offers.
We’re focused on like either. What we’re listening to on business podcasts, not to be too meta or like what we’re learning inside of a course that is not ever usually centered around, like, what is our audience asking us for? What do they want to see from us? And so before you launch something, before you put so much effort and energy and hopes and dreams on any kind of launch, like how involved has your audience been in the creation of said thing?
And If you can look back and say, I haven’t actually talked to any of my, you know, community followers, audience about this. I would say, I’m not saying that it’s going to fail, but I think that you would potentially create something better having done it with your community. Just like you with the challenge, you did it live.
You’re like, Hey, we’re learning. You’re going to create something even better a couple of months from now. And so don’t stop talking to your audience. Um, ask them as much as you can and they’ll tell you.
[00:46:18] Matt Ragland: That’s great. Great advice. Thank you. Uh, obviously. Talking to your community made even easier in circle.
So go make sure that y’all check it out. Yes. Uh, link is in the description below with an extended trial. It’s 21 days instead of 14. So you definitely need to check it out here instead.
[00:46:37] Alexis Teichmiller: Agreed. Also, that’s an exclusive, that’s an exclusive trial. We don’t, we don’t do extended trials. Um, so you might have the longest standing extended trial, I think, in Circle history.
[00:46:49] Matt Ragland: That’s nice. Don’t, don’t tell anyone. Tell people about the podcast, but you know, just let them discover the, the trial. There’s a little Easter egg
[00:46:55] Alexis Teichmiller: inside the pod. Yeah, there
[00:46:56] Matt Ragland: you go.
You know those awesome HeyCreator newsletters that go out once or twice a week? The ones that sign off from me, Matt Ragland? Well, I’m not really writing those. Not. directly anyway. The reason those newsletters sound so much like me is because they’re coming directly from the Back Catalog of Content, and I have the team at Automatic Evergreen to thank for that.
They research, write, edit, and send weekly newsletters on our behalf so that I can spend more time on the podcast and more time in the community. If you’re looking to send high converting newsletters that make you money, you can book a call at automatic evergreen. com.
Let’s shift gears a little bit. Uh, you, I asked you to think about like some creator trends that you see happening. And I’m curious to like hear your thoughts on what you see as like new, exciting, trending in, in the creator economy.
[00:47:52] Alexis Teichmiller: Yeah, I, I don’t know how much of this is new, but I will say that it feels very fresh in terms of.
It’s cyclical and it’s coming back around, you know, um, but I would say long form content is back, baby. She’s back and she wants attention. I just think that people I love it.
[00:48:14] Matt Ragland: Are you talking about writing?
[00:48:16] Alexis Teichmiller: I just mean podcast, YouTube, like YouTube is still dominating. Newsletters are still dominating. This, that long form trust building content.
I don’t see going away. Like I am not going to build trust with someone on a six second reel. Like it’s just not going to happen.
[00:48:31] Matt Ragland: Right. I don’t see that. It could be entertainment, but I don’t know if it’s like trust. Yeah. Exactly. And thinking about it, that’s a good distinction. Like, is it trust or is it entertainment?
[00:48:39] Alexis Teichmiller: Yeah. So I kind of broke down like an audience funnel of relationships and how I view creator trends. So in my opinion, tick tock. Is great for awareness and discoverability. Instagram is good for intrigue. So if I am really interested in something I see on TikTok, I’m going to go to their Instagram and I’m going to follow them.
And I’m like intrigued enough to want them in my Instagram, like sphere. Whereas TikTok is so, in my opinion, a bit transactional. Like I don’t really go very deep into someone’s content on TikTok, but I discover them there, but I go deeper into their content on like YouTube and Instagram, YouTube and newsletters.
are best for relationships and trust building. Like if I am watching your YouTube video or I have signed up for your newsletter and I’m reading it, nothing is building a relationship with me quite like that in terms of my attention and my energy that it takes me to consume that content and then courses and community.
Is where you really see your super fans. That’s where the ultimate trust has been built and you’re delivering the best of you to them. And you’re also getting probably the most interaction from, from them than you would elsewhere.
[00:49:54] Matt Ragland: I really like how you broke that down. I hadn’t really thought of it in, in those terms before.
It makes me feel happy because it, YouTube newsletter and community are the things that I focus on, focus on the most, but it is interesting to think about, like, Cause TikTok really is like the whole app is optimized for discoverability. Like, that’s just what, that’s what TikTok wants, um, being discovered there, but having enough like interest or trust building to like do, do what you said, go to Instagram, YouTube, newsletter.
That’s great.
[00:50:27] Alexis Teichmiller: Another trend I see is the shift away from personal brands to brand names. And this is, this is not necessarily new, but I would say like in the last year or two, I feel like less people are starting companies where it’s like mattraglin. com. You know, it’s like something else. And that’s the sell ability of what you build, I think has become more top of mind for creators.
They’re like, I don’t want to run a business that’s attached to my name. I want to run something that’s, you know, I could potentially sell. Have you seen this as well in the last couple of years?
[00:51:02] Matt Ragland: Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think it’s become more and more, and it’s something that I’ve thought about, especially when we’ve done say the newsletter service, it’s not like Matt Ragland writes newsletters.
Uh, it’s, it’s automatic evergreen and it’s all like very productized and standardized to where it’s something that. Yeah, it could be. I don’t, you know, we don’t have any intentions to sell it, but it is something to think about where if you make yourself and kind of goes back to the star aspect of it, if you make yourself to be the only thing that the business runs on, uh, the only name and the only face and the only way to build trust is through you, then that’s going to cap your sellability in the future significantly.
[00:51:43] Alexis Teichmiller: The last crater trend was around sponsorships. And brands.
[00:51:47] Matt Ragland: Okay. So,
[00:51:47] Alexis Teichmiller: cause this is, this is like my, this is what I live in.
[00:51:49] Matt Ragland: Yeah.
[00:51:51] Alexis Teichmiller: Um, yeah, I would say that pricing creator and influencer pricing is. Really interesting. I feel like, I don’t know, eight years ago, everyone was under valuing themselves. Now I would almost say don’t come for me, but I almost feel like it’s so expensive to work with creators that it’s like beyond a company’s budget.
Like, unless you’re literally Google and you have a million dollar sponsorship, like spend, maybe there’s, is even more than that. These quarterly budgets. That brands and tech companies have, and they want to work with people, but it’s just like the, the pricing to work with creators has become difficult to not put all of your sponsorship budget towards one or two people for the quarter.
And so adjusting, you know, expectations there and just being really honest with creators, like, Hey. I’m going to let you know, this is my budget. And I’m, I’m not saying this from like a negotiation standpoint. I’m being very honest with you, but like, this is what I can do. And I think the, the movement towards if you really care for a brand and you really want to work with a brand, being honest with them about what you need, but then the brand having the ability to be honest with you about what their sponsorship budget really is.
But that’s something like just some of the quotes. Are unreal, you know, and I respect it and I think, Hey, go get your bag. But I think that there’s an aspect of it. That’s gotten a little out of touch. With like the realities of what brands and businesses budgets really are and what they’re able to afford.
[00:53:27] Matt Ragland: Yeah. And I think like looking, looking at this from even the creator size, like understanding that and looking at who are the brands that you can have long term relationships with that isn’t just like a one off thing. But yeah, the other thing that can come into play for this is like creators who are looking for these brand deals.
You can be more like. Maybe it’s like you could come together on, on a budget, but also say like, Hey, this is what I can do on like, maybe it’s not a full YouTube video integration, but it’s like the two, the two minute call out, like just having like different, different levels of where you can work with people also, and not just be like, well, I have one or two offers and it’s, you know, high dollar sign and that’s it like that again, like that’s one way to do it.
But like, I’ve enjoyed that. The brands that I’ve worked with. And it’s always like, Hey, you know what, if we want to work together, let’s just figure out a way to work together.
[00:54:21] Alexis Teichmiller: Yes. Agreed. And I’m glad you brought that up because that’s something that I’ve worked on with different creators and partners is that all a cart menu.
So I was like, Hey, I know that you gave me this, you know, this is your ideal. And I, I respect that. We can’t do that. But what I’d like to do is like maybe this piece and this piece, let’s talk through pricing there and what sponsorship could look like. So, yeah, I think it’s just being willing to, uh, be flexible on both sides, you know, instead of this like very, and just some of the content I see online for creators is like, You need to be charging a million dollars.
And then on the brand side, I’m like, uh, that’s not realistic. So, but yeah, that’s my hot take.
[00:55:04] Matt Ragland: That’s great. Alexis. Thank you so much. What a pleasure. And thanks for being on the hate creator show.
[00:55:08] Alexis Teichmiller: Thank you so much for having me. It’s been an honor and go out there and create something.
[00:55:17] Matt Ragland: Thank you for listening to the hate creator podcast. This show was produced by Tim Forkin and would not be possible without. The support of our incredible team at HeyCreator and the HeyCreator community. Make sure you connect with us on all of the socials at HeyCreator Hey. And for more information on our company, go to heycreator.com and also sign up for the newsletter while you’re there. See you next time.
